Nicole Caba on starting moving and relocation startup in pandemic

Introduction

Pushpak Mundre

Hey guys. So welcome back to another episode of Be Remote podcasts. For today’s episode we have with us, Nicole acaba. She’s the founder at Avvinue. Welcome to the show, Nicole.

Nicole Caba  

Thanks so much Pushpak. I’m so excited to be here. I appreciate you welcoming me to the channel.

Pushpak Mundre

Awesome, awesome. So let us begin with an introduction about yourself and what exactly you do and about Avvinue as well.

More about Avvinue

Nicole Caba

Yeah, so a little bit about myself. While you might notice that I have an American accent. So I am an American, with Dominican roots. And I’ve been living in France for the past two years. And this has actually transcended into what we’ve actually built in our startup called Avvinue, which is a relocation and moving marketplace to really help people guide people through the entire process of moving, whether it’s domestically or internationally. And we’ve been really excited to launch such a great platform that’s helping people all around the world. And so from my experience of moving, we’ve been excited to build something that really means something for people, especially in the remote working space.

Pushpak Mundre

Actually, I’ve noticed that a lot of people from the United States who are into remote space, they try to move to Europe. I don’t know why but I’ve noticed this. Is there any reason you moved to France?

Nicole Caba

Yeah, well, I’m not sure, as everyone’s reason for moving is very different. In terms of my own personal move, it definitely was looking for adventure. I also come from an immigrant family. So I think that those who have experienced different cultural upbringing are also inclined to experience living abroad themselves. So I definitely say that’s contributed. Why France? I like to say that France chose me and I chose France, but it’s worked out really well. But definitely saw an opportunity to to move to Europe and through a French tech visa option. And that’s what landed me here.

Pushpak Mundre

Awesome. So how exactly Avvinue works? And like, how did you come up with the idea, actually? And was there any reason you came up with this? How could it help people?

Nicole Caba

Yeah, so we actually came up with Avvinue after relocating to France. So when, when I moved, I found myself spending a lot of time just trying to research all over and articles, blogs YouTube channel everywhere, just trying to understand exactly the process and the steps to move, to get a visa, to actually get settled. And I realized that there wasn’t really a clear path in how exactly to move. And so, so seeing that, and after moving here, I heard so many other people experienced the exact same thing. Like they all just share. Yes, it was difficult. Yes, it was hard to understand, like what was needed, I needed this, and then I needed that. And so it really was like a lightbulb moment of Oh, my goodness, there actually is a big problem. There’s a challenge that people are experiencing and how, and that’s where I started trying to figure out how can I solve this problem? Like how can our team find a solution for people to not spend so many hours researching, so that we have step by step guidance. So we actually launched our, our application, which is available for anyone to download on iOS, Android, all around the world. And basically, what we provide people is that the first thing we provided was the step by step checklist on what you should do when you move. And so we took into account the country, different regulations, we took into account interdependencies between steps that you should take. And then of course, we had our expert international community really help us create these checklists, because they have experience in different countries. You know what that process looked like. And so that was really exciting. We launched our application in March. And since then, we’ve had 1000s of people download the app and use it for planning out their entire move. And so it’s been a really exciting journey. And we’re continuing to build out features and ways to help people move.

Pushpak Mundre

Okay, so let’s say for example, like right now I’m in India, and I want to travel, I want to move to Europe, to Italy, or like to France. So like, if I download the app, then like all information will be provided to me, or like, there will be a consultant from your side. Like we’ll be getting on a call, you’ll be explaining to me everything or everything is available on the application itself. What does it actually look like?

Nicole Caba

Yeah, so Okay, so step by step. So let’s say you download the app right now. And you select where you’re moving from, where you’re moving to, who’s moving with you, when you’re moving. This information is really important because it actually allows us to create your own customized checklist. So for example, if you’re moving with a pet, or if you’re moving with children. So once you add this information, we now calculate what is what is recommended for your moving checklists. Then from there, we pre populate your entire checklist on things we recommend. So for example, you mentioned Okay, so from India, let’s say, let’s say to Germany, now we’re telling you, the first step may be speak with an immigration lawyer in order to identify what are the visa options available, if you haven’t already identified a visa. So a lot of things we’ve done that are self guided, but we do have a personal moving assistant that you can select as a service, so that you can have someone actually guide you. So we wanted to make sure that the app is very much self guided. But if you need additional assistance, you can have one of our personal moving assistants guide you through the entire process. So then once you let’s say, for example, you select Okay, speak with an immigration lawyer, we actually now connect you with an immigration lawyer. So we take into account where you’re moving from, where you’re moving to, your nationality, and then match you with an immigration lawyer in Germany. And so you will immediately be able to see okay, in Germany, here’s the price for that consultation. And now I can actually do that next step. So we have the full experience that yes, you get the checklist, but beyond the checklist, you can actually coordinate the logistics of the move.

Pushpak Mundre

Yeah. It’s like when you suggest, like, talk to a lawyer, then I don’t need to do it myself. I don’t need to find it myself, you will be suggesting that. Yeah, that’s good. I thought that you’re just suggesting that I talk to a lawyer and I will have to find a lawyer in Germany, I think, yeah, that’s good.

Nicole Caba

Yeah, yeah. That was the main thing. The first step for us was really, how can we help people know what to do? And then the next step was, how can we help people actually do it? And so that’s why we built out now our entire marketplace where you can now see, okay, here’s the immigration lawyers that we’ve already vetted, we’ve actually on boarded each immigration lawyer, we’ve spoken with each one, so that you can now know exactly Okay, this is a good company that I can talk to, or immigration or that I could work with.

Pushpak Mundre 

This must have taken a lot of time, like before launching the app, you must have been working for a year for this, how much time it took for you to build this entire ecosystem?

Nicole Caba 

Yeah, it has taken a lot of time. So we actually launched in 2019. And we didn’t launch our application either. So we did have a lot of time to build out those relationships with companies we’ve been looking at, you know, different regions, we have an emphasis on those to make sure that we do have like, a really great supplier network that uses our application so that you can communicate with them directly on the app. So yeah, it has taken some time.

Pushpak Mundre

Okay, awesome. So do you have any competitors? And like, how do you compete with them?

AvvinueHQ competitors?

Nicole Caba

Yeah, so I think any startup can find a competitor. So I’d say Yes, we do. They, they’re a little bit more indirect. And also, what’s different between us and some competitors in the market is that, for one, we have been international since day one. That is very key for us. Whereas many competitors, we find are very specific to a country. For example, in the US, they’ll have their own specific domestic related moving solutions, but not International. And I think it takes someone who’s moved internationally to understand how complex moving internationally is. And that’s something that we definitely differentiate ourselves from. Another way is that we also have our suppliers that use our entire system. So what some other companies do is now they do an affiliate, so they have the options available, let’s say here’s immigration lawyers, but now you have to go on their website now you have to fill out their form. And what we’ve actually done is we’ve created the process where now instead of you filling out like 10 forms, you just fill it out once and now we connect you with the right the right supplier or the right company to work on that. So those are two big differentiators for us there’s more but I mean though, we could go on for a while.

Pushpak Mundre

So tricky. You know, I was thinking you started this in 2019. Like the year 2019 the pandemic started basically and you’re you’re into like moving space like basically remote space. People need to travel, move from one place to another. And we were all stuck most of the time, like I think recently people started going out and moving out. So like, how do you acquire customers? Like because you know, like everyone, people are still I think people still are not open to travel internationally, so like, how was that experience? I think that might be a big challenge to you. So yeah, how did it all go?

Experiences during the pandemic

Nicole Caba

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I mean, I think myself along with any other startup founder that was directly impacted by the pandemic, did see a very big shift. I think a lot of founders had to decide, do we kind of struggle through it? Or do we pivot, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs had to make that decision. Some of them even closed business. You know, it’s sad to see like a lot of companies that close. For us, we actually took that time to build out our supplier relationship. So we did leverage that time for that. And also we were able to work on more of our enterprise clients. So we do have, for example, an entire B2B, white labeled solution that companies have actually approached us about how can we use Avenue software for relocating our customers or employees. And so we’ve actually taken that time to build out those, those more enterprise level companies for us, in terms of growing. So that’s how we really took that time, we even for example, we launched a podcast, we we double down on content, you know, we really tried to make the most of that time when there weren’t as many customers as pre pandemic, but now we’re starting to see that picked up again. And surprisingly, we also saw a shift in the type of movement. So kind of, like you mentioned, before the pandemic, a lot of people were moving there were more open to moving, but after, after now, this kind of aftermath of the pandemic, and we know it’s still strong in different places around the world. But there’s a different kind of movement, we’ve actually seen that some people actually return to their home country, which is still a movement, but a lot of people are a different type. And so I think before people were thinking of a new relocation, but now we actually saw a lot of moves back to people’s home country. And same thing. There was also Brexit, Brexit actually increased a lot of different moves. And so we saw a different shift also now, for example, in the remote space, we’re seeing digital nomad visas come out, which are huge, like the fact that many countries, I think now it’s like 23, I believe, countries that have launched digital nomad or remote working visas, the fact that they work that quickly, is very impressive, because the immigration world is is a little slow to innovate, by the fact that they launched is just now shows like, there will be a new shift and people moving. And so that’s something that we’ve been keeping in mind in our products. And in the services that we offer it is like there is a new type of mover, there may not be long term, but they’re short term, and they still have certain needs. And that’s really where we’re trying to make sure we we can capture and provide a solution for them as well.

Pushpak Mundre

Yeah, I think, you know, like you kept going even at the time of pandemic and like, actually, you had to believe in it basically, like, because some of us were like, maybe the new normal will stay and things will never come back to normal. And you still believe in you know, I think that’s a really great thing. And it’s like one of the very important things or skills to have as a founder, I guess.

Nicole Caba

So perseverance, yeah, yeah. It’s not easy. You know, it’s, you know, when you see the world change, many of us have never experienced anything like a pandemic. So it just was, we have no idea we’re taking a risk, you know, it was risky. Yeah. But we really believe in what we’re doing. And we knew, like no matter what, even even, for example, in after 2008, recession, for example, in the US, or different places, they’re still even after the recession, there was still international movement. So we were looking at those trends to say, even in a global pandemic, there still will be movement. It’s not like nobody will ever move again. And so it really meant that we had to believe obviously, and what we’re building, but know that if we build this now, we’ll be ready for when there is a lot of movement again, and that I think is what We decided, you know, and I think that’s worked out really well for us there.

Pushpak Mundre 

Yeah. That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So are you guys fully remote as a company?

Nicole Caba

Yes, yes, we believe that people should live where they feel most fulfilled. So that applies for our team, if one month you want to be here, and next month, you want to be somewhere else. It’s all about what you deliver. And I think that’s important for any remote team. And so we stand behind that we should be remote, and you can live where you want to live.

Pushpak Mundre

Awesome. So what do you think about the future of work? And like, Where do you think this is going? Like, people are talking about hybrid work? And some companies are maybe going back to their offices? But what are your thoughts on it?

Future of work

Nicole Caba

Yeah, it’s definitely a trending topic, for sure. Um, you know, I think every company has to decide what’s best for them, I actually was working remotely for a fortune 100 company before, and I know the challenges that that a company is faced with in terms of, you know, their culture, their taxes, their hiring processes. So I know that the larger the company, the harder the decision is for them. But I, but we’ve also seen some companies make really drastic changes to be fully remote hybrid, where I see things are going definitely I think there, there’s going to be the shift to working remotely, where that will look what it will look like, in the next several years. I don’t know, I wish I had a crystal ball. And I could tell you, but but it’s definitely nice to see that, because of the pandemic, a lot of people, a lot of employers are seeing that the quality of your work has nothing to do with where you’re working, whether it’s you’re working at home, or you’re working by the beach, or you’re working I mean, of course, I only say that because there’s always like this view of, oh, you’re working, you must be by the beach, which is not true. But um, you know, that, that you can still deliver quality work and still have great work life balance. And I think that society is viewing that and recognizing that, and I think that over time, we’ll all be working remotely, and I and I think it’s gonna change the way we view work, then life, I think, I think there’ll be a better blend of that.

Pushpak Mundre

Yeah, I think remote work gives people a lot of opportunities to spend time with family. And I think, especially to women as well. Like, in India, we have observed that, like, after a woman gets married, or like, was that, okay? So they have to leave their job, right. But if remote work comes in, then they could have a flexible lifestyle, so they can do their work, and they can take care of their family as well. So this is one of the examples like there are a lot of things like, you know, this could be a revolution.

Nicole Caba

Yeah absolutely. I think that there will be more of this support around how to have a successful remote working experience, because many of us were pushed into remote working because of the pandemic, and so they never got to set up certain best practices. And I think that it’s going to require a lot of setting. How do you say, more like setting a banner for yourself? Having more structure so that you can have a healthy work from home life? So because some people actually don’t like working from home? Yeah, you know, there, there’s challenges. I mean, you just mentioned, being able to work from home, but what happens when you have children there, and you have to watch your children while working so so I think that there’s going to be more guidance into how to really do this well, and I think that, you know, companies, startups are trying to solve this problem. And I think that’s good, because, you know, in order for it to be successful there, there does need to be a lot of support.

Pushpak Mundre

Exactly. Yeah, I think there are roles coming up as Remote heads. Okay. And like, and you know, what, a lot of companies like a lot of like, the pandemic started and we had no other option to take, you know, to work from home. But like, I think, now that’s why people got like, they were suffering from mental health. They didn’t know how exactly to work, right. Like, I think there should be proper guidance. And I think there is out there right now a lot of people are talking about it, how to go about it. So I think people are gonna get used to working from home in the future. Yeah. So what did you learn from starting a company which you wouldn’t have learned from anywhere? Any kind of thing? Yeah.

Learnings from starting a company

Nicole Caba 

Yeah, starting a company? Well, I think that one thing I’ve learned the most in my entrepreneur journey is that you can never stop launching, I think there’s a saying of, you’re always launching there, there’s not just one official launch, you’re testing things. You know, since I come from the corporate sector, I was a technical project manager. So it’s very common that you build something, spend months, sometimes even a year building something and then launching it to the public. Whereas in the startup world, it’s actually very different, you’re always iterating, you’re always fine tuning, you’re always learning for your customer, what actually will be good for them. So I’d say, in the startup journey, I’ve learned to change the way I think, or the way I approached developing from the sense, don’t just build what you think, but actually launch bits and pieces so that you, you end up giving your customers what they really, really want. So that’s something that I’ve learned also, context switching. That’s huge. As a founder, I’ll have calls, let’s say in the morning, talking about legal, then I’m talking to a customer, then the next call is now I’m talking about the VAT system in our marketplace, and I’ll talk to a supplier and so there’s so much change of context, that you really have to be alert, you have to be ready and I and, and I love it, I actually like you know, I think it took me to the next level of being very dedicated, and understanding all the elements that what it takes to to launch a startup. So I’d say that’s been really important for me is understanding how to plan my day, how to arrange my schedule, because you know, a lot of us use calendly, we use these tools there. But it doesn’t really help you in like how you schedule and so so really putting together like what works for me, has been very helpful. And because also the context switching.

Pushpak Mundre

So is this your first startup? Are you a first time founder?

Nicole Caba

So I have launched a business before and I say business, not startup because I have launched a business. This was when I was in the US, which was more around wedding planning. And also doing some public relations work, web development. And so I’ve actually gone through my experience of launching those which are more service based. And then this is my second tech startup. So I did launch, I did launch a product, I won’t even call it it was a startup, but I launched a product, which is very different than launching startup and now is where I really feel like we’ve launched a startup we have customers we have, you know, investors and so I think that’s shift well as an entrepreneur and my startup

Pushpak Mundre

So I have three more questions for you if you have time for it. Your top two favorite books, and your top two favorite remote tools like which personally help you.

Favorite books and remote tools

Nicole Caba

okay, I’d say my favorite book is actually called the ‘Culture Map’, which is very relevant actually, for my space. In terms of international experience and different cultures. I actually think that this book, the Culture Map should be read by every single person because especially in the remote space, when working with people that are from a different cultural background, it’s super important to understand their thought process, or different cultural norms. And actually, with our team, we’ve gone through some of the exercises and they’re really, really great because it allowed us to understand which cultures are maybe more strict which cultures or maybe they read through the lines, you know, and so so I think that’s super important. For our remote team, I highly recommend it, it’s a really great book. And in terms of let’s say my favorite remote tools, so I am an absolute fan of Air Table. I love Love, love, love love Air Table like if I actually had to work for a company but I’m super passionate about I would say it’s air table they have such an amazing tool that allows you to customize so many different things. I’ve used air table as a database of use, or to manage a database, I use it for forms, I use it for planning and for tracking so many different things. Air table is definitely number one. The other remote tool I’d say would be I mean, I think a lot of people know about calendly. And scheduling Yeah, definitely saves time. It’s not culturally acceptable in many countries. But it is something that certainly helps save time, and scheduling. And then another would be Slack, which is very common as well. So I really like these three, they’re they’re really big and known out there. I’m trying to think of other tools that maybe are not commonly recognized. But yeah, those three are really great. So yeah, I highly recommend them.

Pushpak Mundre

Yeah, I know, slack and another but Air Table I heard about it for the first time. I don’t know, I never heard about it.

Nicole Caba

Oh, well. How can I convince you?

Pushpak Mundre

I’ll surely check it out. Yeah.

Nicole Caba  

It’s very great. I highly recommend it.

Pushpak Mundre

Awesome, awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Nicole, I think. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for giving your time. I think we had a nice discussion, like, our listeners would gain a lot of insights on remote work. And if they want to move from, you know, one place to another, I think this would be a super helpful podcast for them, I guess.

Nicole Caba 

Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for having me. And it was great speaking about Avvinue and what we’ve built for people moving and also let’s see how remote work continues in the world. I’m excited for the future. And thank you.

Pushpak Mundre

Thank you.