Gavin McDonald on Remote sales in Creator economy

Introduction

Nirmaan
So, Gavin, thanks for being on the podcast – Be Remote, where we talk to founders and executives of remote companies and the journeys and wellbeing. So we can begin with a short intro about yourself, Gavin and also about your company Uscreen.

Gavin
So I’m Gavin McDonald, I’m the director of sales, I lead the sales team over at Uscreen. So a little bit about myself, I’ve been in the software as a service sales industry for basically, my entire career. So started off as doing the individual contributor role, moved into management and now full on, you know, strategic planning and leading the team over at Uscreen. So a little bit about Uscreen, Uscreen is a leading provider of video on demand services, live video, OTT applications, and all this is meant for content creators. So essentially, what we at Uscreen do is we allow creatives and creators to monetize their content, while simultaneously growing their audience. So it’s really giving our audience their own, like Netflix style site, so they can actually fill it up with personal content, and better connect with their fans and their audience.

Nirmaan
Sounds good? And just for a common man’s understanding, how does it help, let’s say for your audience, or your clients, titles, the video generators? Does it help them with more revenue? better management of whatever they do? What else?

Uscreen for content creators

Gavin
Yeah, so for the common man’s understanding of Uscreen, yes, the simplest way to put it is it’s monetizing your content. So there are really great distribution platforms out there, you know, any social media platform, YouTube, where people can see and be seen, what Uscreen does is kind of take it to the next level. So we allow you to take the content that you have, and then turn that into actual revenue, right. So it’s awesome to get a whole lot of people to follow you or your brand online and get them to interact with your content. We take it one step further, allowing people to offer this content at a premium. So for instance, it’d be something like, if I’m a chef, and I’m offering up, you know, recipes and cooking something online for all my subscribers to see, I can go to something like Uscreen, and then take it one step further and actually put things behind a paywall create full on courses, do live cooking demonstrations, as well as have my own branded app where all my content can live, it’s just giving your audience one step, allowing them to be one step closer to you, what you allow them to really curate how you want them to best consume your content.

Nirmaan
So instead of just relying on YouTube’s ad channel to generate revenue for you, you are able to generate revenue through more channels.

Gavin
Yeah, exactly. That’s actually something that we see very commonly with our user base is, you know, we do not have an advertising or what’s known as AVOD model, people really are willing to actually pay a premium to skip ads. And then you can see that with a service like Hulu, for instance, where they have the ad version, and then they have the higher paid version, where there are no ads. If I really, really connect with something that I care about, and I constantly want to be in the know, I’m willing to pay that small price, that’s just something that the creator economy is telling us to avoid seeing the ads. So it’s a nice additional benefit for a user experience journey as well.

Nirmaan
Interesting. So how do you compare against a bigger video creator economy product like YouTube and Tiktok? Like any comparisons, you would want to make?

How’s Uscreen different from YouTube and TikTok?

Gavin
Yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily say comparisons, we really work in tandem with the larger sites like YouTube and Tiktok. And actually, most of our best clients focus on growing those audiences. So think of a fitness influencer, especially during the ages of lockdowns and COVID, exercise is something that’s always gonna be a very important daily healthy regiment. But with gyms being locked down, personal trainers not being able to run classes. They go online, to put content out there so that people can continue to work out and have that experience of what it’s like to work with a personal trainer. So if I’m a personal trainer or fitness influencer, I might post a handful of different things, different workouts on my YouTube to help bolster up my own brand. And then I can also redirect people to my branded site. And then we put things behind the paywall and offer more things in the style of a full on course layout. So as opposed to just watching any workout at random, we curate it to make sure that the end user’s having a really good experience, and allow people to participate in live classes. Within Uscreen, we offer some community aspects as well, which is really nice to bring everybody together, but it’s just a different way of absorbing content, because we know that dedicated fans are willing to further interact with those influencers that they really love. And one nice thing about Uscreen is while we work congruently with stuff like YouTube, we also help our creators take those existing audience sizes, and actually use Uscreen’s marketing tools, to convert more people from just being kind of casual fans to really dedicated fans and going that extra step of not just following your YouTube channel, or your TikTok channel, but becoming a paid subscriber to your personal brand.

Nirmaan
So do you also call Uscreen as a community management tool for creators?

Gavin
Yes, it’s a newer feature that we have launched out with a handful of the people within our platform. We’re about to offer it to the larger scale also. It’s great to just, you know, have awesome video content out there, but it’s a whole other thing when you can have this sense of community around there and have those community features that, you know, many social media sites already have. If your fans are already gathered in one place, and they really love your content, then let’s give them the ability to communicate together.

Nirmaan
Sounds interesting. And if you can throw in some numbers in terms of how many users you have on your product?

Gavin
Oh, yeah, it’s in the tens of thousands. You know, we work with so many different people from different walks of life, from different sizes. You know, it’s an amazing organization to be a part of, because each and every day, you know, we just come to see, you know, more and more people, you know, loving what we do. We actually just announced that we have surpassed over $150 million of revenue that people on our platform have generated for themselves.

Nirmaan
That’s amazing. Okay. So that compares you to the best creative economy platforms around.

Gavin
Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, yeah.

Nirmaan
And so you mentioned that you have a wide segment of audiences, or users that you try to target, which kind of is evident as well from the video content economy. So how do you go about acquiring them? So do you acquire them while they’re still YouTube level? Or how do you go about acquiring?

Gavin
So we’ve got a couple of different channels, you know, we have a phenomenal demand generation and marketing team over at Uscreen that has done a really good job of, you know, making sure that our brand is seen, where we know our target audience lives. But we also have a really, really solid sales team. You know, we specialize in the art of outbound sales, as I like to say, and we have a global team too. So this really allows us to touch all corners of the globe, because the community is so diverse, we work with people at different verticals in different countries, continents and languages. Because we want to create a place for all creators to be a part of and take place. So you know, my sales team really takes pride in creating those relationships with our clients. Um, you know, I always say, you know, we come to work every day to serve our customers. And we focus on the why, meaning, you know, we don’t just sit there and talk about, hey, Uscreen is the most robust platform, we’ve got the greatest features our clients generate the most revenue, but in talking to different people, we talk about why other customers love, Uscreen, what it means to be a part of this community, you know, what it means to be part of a community of creators built by creators. And we always say to all of our clients that, you know, your growth means our growth. So, you know, we’re here to, you know, kind of pull things together as one. And with all these different touch points out there it’s been a really great beacon of bringing in some really awesome clients.

Nirmaan
Sounds interesting, so At this point, I am thinking that there are a lot of other competing products in the market, right, who may focus on a very specific kind of audience, right? And who specialized let’s say at course creation. Okay. So do you see Uscreen also going that path where your product will also end up catering to the specific segments in a deeper way?

Gavin
Yeah, I think that’s a very fair point, a lot of the I guess, competitive landscape out there, people tend to focus on niche markets, Uscreen is really targeting a bit of a broader audience. But we’ve got very successful use cases across multiple different verticals here. So I’ve already mentioned fitness, I think I mentioned cooking earlier too, you mentioned Ed Tech, what we referred to as E learning, that’s a very, very large market. It’s something that, with the global pandemic, has really been kind of brought back to the forefront, a lot of people stuck at home, you’ve got maybe a little bit more time back in your day, and you want to take on maybe learning a new language or a new skill set, there’s a plethora of really, really great creators out there that are offering courses, and many of them are actually choosing to use use Uscreen, mainly because of, well, some of the things already mentioned, you know, our investment in to our clients long term future, and on top of that, our ability to actually connect our creators to their community, because, you know, I mentioned live stream action is a huge deal. Though everybody is remote these days, it’s still very nice to feel like you’re having a one to one interaction just like, you know, you and I are on different corners of the globe right now, but we’re still communicating almost as if we were in the same room, right? It’s that same sort of mentality that a lot of consumers are really clamoring for, and we provide that.

Nirmaan
Understood. So you think the creator economy platforms are growing very fast. So do you think we’re at a point where the sole creator economy is just going to explode a lot more, because the world has gone so remote, and there’s a lot more consumption online?

Future of creator economy

Gavin
I do, I think the creator economy is here to stay. It kind of started several years ago with terms like cord-cutting, being very popular and people talking about digesting content in different ways. Plain and simple, the creative economy is the future, people want to digest digital content. And more and more people are doing it in different ways. It’s not just digesting content on your phone, or on your laptop these days. It goes one step further with the new adaptations of smart televisions to having OTT apps like Roku, or Amazon Fire, where we can actually allow people to take the sort of contents that went from like, what I say, the small screen, like a tablet, or a phone and actually put it on the more traditional big screen. This makes it even easier for some of these content creators to be more widely adopted, because there’s just so many different places where you can find this information and get this content out there and consume it as if it was anything else. I think a lot of people used to argue that it might not take off just because everything is so localized to, you know, like a laptop or a phone. And people don’t want to consume content that way. But the fact that we’ve been able to take that same bit of content and actually put it on larger smart TVs and things like that means that the people who are less likely to maybe watch something on their phone, that same content is now deliverable on a device that they’re more comfortable watching it on.

Nirmaan
Interesting. So you see that video platforms like yourself, competing with the OTT platforms for content in the future?

Gavin
Yeah well, that’s really in essence, one of the things that Uscreen provides as we allow people to create these OTT platforms and we’ve got really excellent partnerships with Apple and Google and Roku and Amazon so where we can actually help our Creator base get that distribution, we can get that stuff out there for the masses to see some more and more people can digest it and enjoy it.

Nirmaan
Sounds really cool, the world is already before us. Yeah, the future is different. Sounds very interesting. So what do you think are the challenges that you feel Ustream would face in its growth to kind of create the next big thing in the Creator economy?

Gavin
No, we already kind of alluded to, I think that we’re gonna see a major uptick. So the challenge is, it’s just going to be how people continue to adapt to this. Distribution is not a problem. We already know that people are consuming content more so digitally on sites like YouTube than they are with the traditional cable, right? Like the distribution means are there, we alluded to the different OTT apps that are available for content creators to publish their information on. I predict that we’re only going to see an uptick in this. The challenge is going to be the adaptation, you know, how do people make really, really relevant content? If we harken back to the times of the golden age of cinema or the golden age of television, what stood out is really excellent content. If the new delivery and distribution platforms are more digital and OTT based, then your content will also be a challenge. And that’s something that creators are going to have to really level with, making sure they’re putting out premium stuff, because more and more people are going to be entering into this marketplace.

Nirmaan
I think the quality of content and curation becomes very important.

Gavin
Wayne Einziger from blockbuster, famously said “Content is king”, it’s true. Content always wins out.

Nirmaan
Sounds interesting. So do you think a player like YouTube would try to come up with a platform like Uscreen? And would that be a competition?

Gavin
You know, it’s things that we’ve joked about to the side with the team, are we going to be in YouTube’s crosshairs of being competition. Now, we don’t see that happening. Again, we view ourselves as an additional tool to help people who are already successful on YouTube just further their brand out there. And when we think that YouTube has done a really good job of putting together a great way for the masses to consume content and a great way for anybody to distribute stuff for free. It’s an amazing platform that has transformed how we just digest video content, Uscreen is not a competitor to it, it’s just it’s the next step. It’s the step above. I’ve already established a presence here. I’ve already built the following. From here on out, it’s about how I can continue to grow that following and monetize them more? Engage with them more as well?

Nirmaan
Sounds interesting. Okay. And so what are the products you feel should become a part of this creator economy or should happen sooner than later? For the creator economy, especially in your stream to kind of take-off faster? Let the imagination run wild?

Gavin
I think it’s a very good question, as far as tools and products that are going to transform the creator economy landscape. You know, I think we’re in such a dynamic market right now. We’ve already used the term creator economy several times. The market really has to dictate what sort of shifts and what sort of new tools are going to be necessary for optimization? It’s difficult to pinpoint, and I’ll be honest, I haven’t given too much thought or credence to that future scaping of, you know, what sort of tools are we going to need? Because with the way that it’s blowing up right now, it’s more about being agile, and how do we satisfy customer needs, moment to moment? And how do we make sure that we’re listening to our customers and listening to the marketplace of what they need to be successful, and one of the things that’s amazing about Uscreen is we pride ourselves in being customer-focused. So all of our product’s roadmap really is dictated by what our customers are telling us they want, right? And as long as we and other similar video on demand solutions continue to listen to the market and the community of creators have what they want, then the technology is going to unfold from there.

Nirmaan
Interesting, I think I’m going to keep tabs on this. It’s a very interesting space.

Gavin
It’s a very interesting space. It’s a very exciting space.

Nirmaan
Especially because I think mobile content consumption has really picked up, especially video consumption. So I think because of the short attention span, I think a lot of desire is going to get created in the consumer for better content. So I think somebody who can cater to better content will always win. And this becomes like a very nice way to crowdsource content creation instead of an OTT platform investing billions. Sounds good. So coming to how your team is set up, and how your company functions. So I believe you guys are in a completely distributed team. So how do you go about building your team? Like, can you share your journey about building this team, especially also your sales team?

How to build a remote team?

Gavin
Yeah, that’s a great question. So Uscreen has been around since 2012, and actually started as a remote first company. So a lot of the systems have been in place so well before the world really went more remote. But the hiring process, whether it’s in person or remote really brings out its own sense of challenges. But I actually think that that process translates really well to a remote world. So even prior to me joining Uscreen, I was fortunate enough to run remote sales teams. So this was not something that was new to me, when the pandemic hit. A lot of traditional sales leaders, I would say even back in 2018, 2019, were very adamant about making sure that inside sales teams were in an office setting. But for me, I always thought that puts more limitations on what we can accomplish. Talent is not local, talent is global. Alright, there are talented sales people in different markets, different countries in different time zones. And I think it’s really important to recognize that as you think about hiring, and you think about scale, and you think about really cultivating team culture and things like that, you know, as long as we’ve got these tools to reach our audience, it doesn’t matter where you live. And typically when I hire people, I hire them off of attitude, willingness, and how they fit into the culture. So throughout the hiring process, obviously, I’m going to test for those just like I would, if this was a non remote job, but then we test for a little bit more about how you can execute all of those different values from the comfort of your own home. We’re Uscreen, we like to say everybody should have an owner’s mentality, which just means be accountable, be accountable to yourself, be accountable to others. The fact that we’ve been able to hire people off of nearly every continent out there means that there are good people all over the place. And that shouldn’t really be a disruptor to your hiring process. All it means is you’ve got a much greater talent pool to pull from. And as long as you hit the boxes that you need for your sales team, or for your larger global organization, remote work really really works out well. It’s a great way to build and scale as long as you put some of the management structures in place once everybody’s in there.

Nirmaan
Understood. So I believe that when you started out it must have been very challenging because the world had not moved remote. So how did you manage to kind of convince or find people in the first place who would be willing to work remotely? How did this whole journey begin and move? What were the challenges you had to overcome? And how does it work out now?

Challenges in remote hiring

Gavin
Yeah, well, the challenges with hiring in general, usually just, you know, making sure that you’re finding really, really great people. So we have done, you know, the traditional routes of, you know, posting jobs out there, saying it’s up to remote work. We’ve also worked with recruiters, I’ll tell you, my absolute favorite way of hiring people is through referrals. You know, I always say good people know good people. It’s just great practice. Once you’ve got somebody who, you know, fits into the culture, is accountable, has got the aptitude, and has got willingness to learn, those sorts of people, know other great people. So when you’ve got a really well defined company culture, and a really good maybe even sales team culture, the people within that, you know, their sphere of influence tends to attract like minded folks. So that’s one pathway that I think is really important in terms of hiring the right people. And then just having very, very detailed, I guess, criteria and metrics of what you’re looking for when you’re working with either recruiters, or you know, internal recruiters, like staffing needs and things like that. All of that kind of puts together this larger picture of what does our ideal candidate look like? And once you’ve pinpointed that it becomes simpler to really funnel people into the right direction. And then from there, you know, we hit those boxes of aptitude, willingness, culture fit, then from there, the last step being execution, and then you start building a really classic team.

Nirmaan
Sounds interesting. So another econ is that you also follow their advice on how to build out a robot sales team and a remote team overall.

Gavin
You know, I wouldn’t say necessarily companies, but there are plenty of people that I’ve looked to in my past, mentors of mine, that I have stolen, you know, tips and tricks when it comes to hiring, and what they’ve done, and then adapted a lot of those processes to a more remote world.

Nirmaan
Sounds good. So just as a quick note, what are the tools you use as a remote sales team to kind of keep yourselves updated on each other’s work, motivate each other, make sure that each individual is following their KPIs or OKRs, or whatever you guys follow at your company.

What tools do you use to stay connected remotely as a team?

Gavin
Yeah, so as far as you know, just ideal remote tools. Gong is one of my favorite platforms that’s come out in the last several years, I think it’s amazing for coaching and accountability, one of the things that’s really key to how I tend to lead my team is I want to have a coaching culture out there, I want a lot of transparency, I want a lot of openness, I love to get my hands dirty, with reps and actually walk through calls together and pinpoint areas that we’re excelling at, pinpoint areas that might need a little bit more of improvement. And Gong has hit all my expectations on that, you know, being remote too does require a couple tactical tools. So being able to make phone calls and emails run through sequences or cadences. So I really enjoyed working with outplay, I think it’s a very simple UI to follow, it’s easy for reps to fall in and really master pretty quickly. And it’s very intuitive in terms of working with our CRM system. So it generates some really nice reports, so I can help coach the team about what sort of things are working in terms of trending towards our KPIs? Right. So if I know that we got to make X number of touch points, get X number of demos to get X number of deals, Outplay has been a really great tool to help me map out what those leading indicators and sequences should look like. Beyond that, I’ve got a love-hate relationship with Slack. I think it’s a very fun tool to communicate, especially in a remote world, you know, the things that remote companies do miss out on, or sometimes like that water cooler culture, you know, go into the kitchen, and just crack some jokes and things like that. And I think slack actually has done a pretty solid job at allowing for multiple different channels for people to connect with their co workers, as opposed to just having really basic interactions there. But at the same time, like a love hate, it can be very distracting, nonetheless. So I tried my best to be disciplined of, you know, muting myself when necessary, but I think those three tools have really helped, you know, God, the coaching culture, and then adding a little bit of just true sales culture in there too. And we want people to have fun, and we want people to work hard, right? It’s not just a job here. At Uscreen we’re trying to create careers, we’re trying to develop young minds. We’re trying to progress people to being the next generation of great thought leaders too.

Nirmaan
That’s cool and do you guys have those annual meetups or meetups every six months?

Gavin
Yeah, so, um, for the company wide, we do quarterly all hands. You mentioned OKRs, we’ve implemented some OKR frameworks out there so that people can share what they’re working on, what their goals are and how we’re doing in terms of leading to them. So we do that, you know, with some with an all hands mentality. As far as my sales team is concerned, I meet with them every single day. I think it’s important. While running a team, anybody in a leadership position should be meeting with their team as often as possible, and then taking it one step further, making sure you have dedicated one on one time. Now, you have to build transparency. You have to build trust and you know, better together, right? Everybody should be aligned to the common goal. And we should celebrate our wins across the board too. So, person A’s success leads to person B’s success. So this meeting cadence, I think, is really important to help bringing people together so that ultimately, the team can prop each other up.

Nirmaan
Sounds nice, this is good advice, I think I’m going to follow it up with my company as well. So what do you do outside of your work? And how does that help you kind of switch off and switch on?

Gavin
Well, I love to travel, the pandemic has made it a little difficult to do that. But I always love experiencing new places and trying new things just to kind of shut the brain off for a little bit, it helps me come back energized without being limited. I love being outside, hiking, biking, just getting out and being active. I’ve got two rambunctious dogs that are amazing. And I had to put them in the other room, so they don’t disrupt our time right now. So there’s oftentimes where I can be seen with them in the park or something like that. But I do think it’s important for everybody, especially in these more tumultuous uncertain times, to take those mental health breaks, and get back and come back refreshed.

Nirmaan
Can you describe one thing that you’ve done? Something that was new, and you found, okay, the pandemic and remote work has afforded you the time to do this, and you will continue doing that?

One activity that you enjoy, that remote work has afforded you to undertake?

Gavin
That’s a really good question. Um, the pandemic has afforded me the ability to like, I would say, work on myself more. There are more, slightly more hours in the day for me to get out and stretch my legs, not sitting in traffic or anything like that. So, I’ve done a much better job with a regular exercise routine. And I think it’s also allowed me to connect more with my family and friends, maybe not necessarily always in person, but I think the pandemic has taught us that there’s a lot of things out there that don’t last forever, right? So it’s helped me, work on myself to be a better family member, be a better friend. So a little bit of, I guess, physical and health growth, and some personal and spiritual growth as well.

Nirmaan
You think that is like, helping you also perform better, like the time that you’re able to give yourself?

Gavin
I think so. Sales in particular, sales is so much of a mindset, in terms of how it fits into any larger organization, it’s important to come to sales related conversations, really, with a clear head. You can take the absolute best person, the best salesperson in the world, at any organization. They’re going to have off days, they’re going to have days where they’re distracted, and that clearly impacts performance. So I think it’s very important for people to take a step back and be clear headed, be level headed, and really try to enjoy what you’re doing too. And I think if you can find some joy in things you’re doing outside of work, more often than not, it’s going to lead to more joy with what you’re doing while you’re working.

Nirmaan
That’s a good place. So what would you tell as an aspiring sales personnel? Like how do they work on themselves in this world where probably they’re not going to do in person sales for a long time, they are always going to remain remote, the world will be okay with, let’s say, remote sales. So how does one prepare for a career in remote sales?

How to prepare for a career in remote sales?

Gavin
Really great question. I think the most important thing, and this is maybe even contradictory to sales traits from years ago, is to leave your ego at the door. I think it’s very important for salespeople to be humble. When I look at the really, really top salespeople I’ve ever worked with, spanning multiple organizations, humility and grace are two leading characteristics and I think that’s a very important thing for younger salespeople to be cognizant of and be aware of is to come to situations with humility. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Don’t be afraid to make a mistake, hitting those sorts of things, leaving that ego aside, will only help you to be better. But there’s always somebody who’s going to do one thing better than you. And don’t be afraid to try to pry and figure out what that one thing is.

Nirmaan
Interesting. So at this point, do you have any recommendations of content for aspiring professionals to kind of get updated, say that we will also be able to highlight it and post it in our session?

Content recommendations for aspiring professionals.

Gavin
Yeah, so one thing that I would say, you know, as far as sales is concerned, there’s some really great content out there, sales hacker does some awesome stuff. I recommend every single salesperson I’ve ever worked with, to read Simon Sinek’s ‘Start with why’. I think it’s the most crucial bit of just human to human communication that translates to sales much more than any sort of methodology, you know, challenger sale, spend selling, like, Simon Sinek, start with why I think it’s a great place for anybody aspiring to really want to be a rock star in sales. As far as the content creator side of things, Uscreen actually has a really phenomenal YouTube channel out there, where we talk with a lot of creators of how they view the marketplace when they think the future of content creation is going to be. Our founder and CEO, PJ wants a really, really great YouTube channel out there. So he’s got some really great advice too.

Nirmaan
So, one last question before we wrap up any other sales folks or remote sales folks, you advise us to kind of do our next podcast with almost like you can tag them and say that we can continue the series and build more interesting insights about remote sales and remote distributed teams.

Gavin
I do think I’ve got a couple. I’d be afraid to put them on the spot.

Nirmaan
We’ll reach out to them and request them.

Gavin
But no, I’ll be honest, but I think some people have adapted to remote sales stronger than others. You know, not saying that people have fallen flat on their face or anything. But you know, those that were quick to understand how that remote selling is the wave of the future, not just a temporary wave during the pandemic. Those are the people that are really going to be building lasting legacies. And also people who have that, I guess, ability to empathize with the needs of sales people wanting to be remote too, are going to build stronger and more world class teams. Because sales talent goes where the best opportunity is, the best opportunity does not necessarily mean selling the best product that doesn’t always necessarily mean getting the highest paycheck. This opportunity is what’s right for the right individual. And I think people running remote sales teams might have a slight edge of understanding like what is going to be the right situation for the right individual

Nirmaan
Sounds good. I think we’re done here. Kevin, thank you so much for your time, and we look forward to connecting with you again on more detailed discussions on remote sales. So thank you, Kevin, you have a nice weekend coming up.

Gavin
All right, you too. Take care.

Nirmaan
Bye.